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Sep 5, 2010
The Oriental Ordeal
In general, R' Yechiel Spira of JKN does good work. I look at him as a sort of maverick. He has found an issue that is close to his heart and he has decided the Jewish world isn't as careful or as knowledgeable as it should be, and he has taken it upon himself to raise the level of awareness among the people, and better the kashrus situation in Israel. And most of what he does is good.
One could say who is he to go around on his own and tell people what to do and set policy, but that is really the way it always works. Things can slide and until somebody steps up to the plate and does what he sees to be right, it will continue to slide. It is often one person who takes on a project who can and does make changes to the system.
I remember hearing the story of the fellow who survived WWII and he felt that shaatnez was an issue that people had no awareness of and therefore were being nichshal in. He took it upon himself and went around from community to community and gave lectures on it and eventually set up and taught shaatnez labs and in the merit of this one fellow's efforts, he resurrected a mitzvah that was basically in the dustbin (so the story goes at least).
That being said, when such things are happening there are always sure to be victims of the new policy being set. Spira is not setting policy, but he is creating an awareness and a movement to a new level of kashrus awareness that did not exist before. And as more people jump on his bandwagon, the standards of the communities begin to shift.
A good example of this, I think, is how R' Spira relates to the Rabbanut. While he had tremendous praise for the way the people and rabbis in the Rabbanut system work, and he made clear that nobody has the right to call any hechsher treif just because you dont rely on it, he strongly insinuated that they are full of kulas and can't be relied upon. When one community rav spoke up at the lecture and said that he has taken courses in the Rabbanut and he explained how it works, different than how R' Spira explained, it puts the situation in a bind. No matter what he says, he does have an agenda - mostly it is good, to improve the kashrus situation. But it takes victims. And that's not always fair and reasonable when it is a drive by one individual. But that is the reality - he creates a motion, a forward moving train, and sometimes it just gets out of hand.
Case in point is the restaurant discussed in the last lecture, The Oriental, a Chinese food restaurant owned by a local family.
They have been under the hechsher of the Rabbanut Yerushalayim Mehadrin, and for whatever reason their certificate expired and they did not receive a new one. They continued to hang the old certificate, and R' Spira in his review of Bet Shemesh eateries called them on it. While it is a common thing that they keep expired certificates up, it is really wrong and against the rules. A common reason given for keeping it on display is that it has the mashgiach contact information. Whether that is enough of a reason to hang an expired sign I don't know, perhaps the proprietor can hang a separate sign with th phone number of the mashgiach, but R' Spira considers it automatically an attempt to defraud and deceive the public by making them think you have a teudah when you do not. And he said so loud and clear at tyhe lecture. Even though they already have received their newly renewed teudah, that barely got a mention, while he very loudly used them as an example of fraud via expired certificates.
Stating that such a restaurant is using fraudulent means can be extremely damaging to the restaurant, even if the accusation is incorrect, and especially because they are members of the same community as all of us.
The Viflics, the proprietors of The Oriental, put out the following statement on the local email list:
I was very kindly informed by one of my neighbours this morning regarding what was said about the kashrus certificate of The Oriental Chinese restaurant. and I would like to give our side of the story.
It is correct to say that our mehadrin teudah was in fact expired for a period of time, HOWEVER, during the WHOLE TIME we had a FULL-TIME MEHADRIN YERUSHALAYIM MASGIACH on the premises and daily visits from the rabbinut Bet Shemesh masgiach, which was not mentioned.
Anyone who had a problem with the certificate was encouraged to speak to our masgiach and if this was not enough, we gave them the the telephone number of the Mehadrin Yerushalayim supervisor.
I wish that Rabbi Spiro had spoken with us, toured our kitchen, spoken to our mashgiach (like some other establishments metioned). If so, he would have seen that the kashrut standards of the Mehadrin Yerushalayim were being upheld by us in conjunction with the mashgiach while we were working on fixing the expired teudah.
My husband, Itzak, is a frum, well-known and long-time member of the community. The kashrut of our restaurant has always been at the same high standard that is demanded by Mehadrin Yerushalayim even when our teudah was expired.
If you have any questions, please call us. We are always available to our patrons.
Please come visit our restaurant, come to our kitchen, speak to our mashgiach and judge for yourself.
Thank you
Tamar Viflic
That raises questions - is the certificate the end all? if the restaurant has a mashgiach, the certificate should be unnecessary anyway. While it still might be wrong to hang an expired certificate, no matter how good the reason, 15 feet further in the restaurant is a live mashgiach waiting to be spoken to who can verify that all the standards are or are not being kept at any given level. If you are truly conducting a thorough investigation, while it is good to be skeptical and feel free to criticize them for the expired certificate, why not walk into the kitchen, speak to the proprietor, speak to the mashgiach and get the whole picture? See whether the owners are trustworthy people or not, whether they are eidele and heimeshe people or not, whether there is or is not a mashgiach, and then give the community the whole story and let every person decide for himself whether to trust a mashgiach or wait until the new paper arrives..
I asked some questions about this incident to the Viflics, and to R' Spira.
I asked the Viflics why they kept the expired teudah up, if their suddenly getting a new teudah after months of not getting it was only because of R' Spira's investigation or was the timing just coincidental.
The following is the answer they sent me:
Mr. Spira had nothing to do with us getting the teudah..... the teudah was held up at the rabbenut Yerushalyaim office because people were on vacation, computer problems etc. that was what they told us anyway. We had already PAID for it before Mr. Spira started his investigation into The Oriental!!! Mr. Spira should have checked this out AND mention it in his article.
1) The teudah was not taken down as it had details of the Mehadrin Yerushalayim supervisor on it and people were encouraged to call him in case they had any questions. Bearing the fact that we always had and have a Mehadrin Yerushalayim mashgiach on premises.
2) After paying for the teudah, it took us almost a month to get it, as there were supposedly technical problems within Mehadrin Yerushalayim. There was definetly a delay in getting it to us... even though I was on the phone almost every other day.
3) Incidentally, I just checked out that the day that Mr. Spira came to the restaurant our teudah was actually paid for and 100% VALID, it was just stuck at the Mehardin Yerushalayim office. His investigation definitely had nothing to do with us re-newing the teudah.
4) BTW the whole time that the teudah was expired we paid for and were under their supervision.
4) I don't know if you have read his new booklet or were at the shiur however, two points; at the time the booklet went to print our teudah was already re-newed (okay he put a little section in the back saying that it was re-newed) however, at the shiur (last week) I was told by many people that he publicly bad-mouthed us and our teudah was already all in order over a month ago (if not more).........
Some of the facts that he writes about the other restaurants/establishments even though negative he turns them out positive. He does not mention the fact that my husband is a frum, well-known and long time member from the local community. Why did he not ask to speak to our even to our mashgiach?? Did he think about what he has done can ruin a small family run business..... He praises some establishments with non-religious owners etc.
The answers supplied by the Viflics seem very reasonable and understandable to me. It even raises a question about R' Spira's policy - here is a restaurant that ordered a new teudah, kept the original mashgiach and stadards, yet it took nearly a month to get the new teudah - according to R' Spira's policy, this restaurant has no right to operate until they get the new teudah - are they supposed to close just because the certifying agency cannot get the teudah out in a timely manner?
It also raises a strong question against the Rabbanut mehadrin, and any other agency with the same issues, why a food establishment pays for a teudah and cant get it for a month afterwards - while minor delays might be understandable, how can a restaurant continue to operate like this with no teudah for such a long period of time?
I also sent questions to R' Yechiel Spira, specifically why he stressed their expired teudah and not their new one (even though it did get a small mention, and in the book it got mentioned in the back as an added point), and also why he left it at the teudah issue and did not go in to speak to the mashgiach. R' Spira has not yet responded to my email (it has been 2 days) - if he does, I will publish his answers.
Based on all the information, I don't see why anyone could not at any point trust the Viflics and eat in their restaurant, especially considering they had a mashgiach temidi on premises the whole time throughout the ordeal, which is far better than what many restaurants have under the best of circumstances.
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This was not a case of the Teudah expiring yesterday. The Teudah expired on the 13 of Nisan, Mr. Spiro came in Tamuz/Av which is 3-4 months later and they still had the old Teudah up. I can understand the new Teudah taking a few weeks even a month but 3-4 months is very suspicious. According to them
ReplyDeleteAfter paying for the teudah, it took us almost a month to get it, as there were supposedly technical problems within Mehadrin Yerushalayim. There was definetly a delay in getting it to us... even though I was on the phone almost every other day.
Based on the above explanation they haven't accounted for the first 2 months with the expired teudah. If it took a month to get it that means that they payed in late Sivan or early Tamuz, what about the second half of Nisan, Iyar and Sivan?
good question, maybe they will answer. Nobody told me the number or names of any of the months involved..
ReplyDeletebut either way, if they had a mashgiach temidi the whole time, it shouldnt have bene a problem. Sure, the teudah situation should be resolved, and as I said an expired teudah should nopt be on display, but as far as the kashrus of the place I dont see a question. Someone can prefer not to eat there, but the situation should still be described as one with a mashgiach present.
If there is a phone number on the expired Teuda, any customer could have called the Kashrut Authority to ask whether they were aware of the expired Teuda in the establishment.
ReplyDeleteWhen we first arrived in Modi'in we went to a restarant in Maccabim under the Hasgacha of Rav Tzukutai, the Rav of Maccabim-Reut (he is also married to Rav Odaida's daughter).
The Teuda had expiered by a few weeks, when I asked the owner about it he said that they were waiting for the new tuda to be delivered, but the Mashigiach was still there every day.
He tried reaching the Mashgiuach on the phonem when he couldn't get through he called Rav Tzukutai directly. The Rav was able to tell me where the meat came from and on what days it was delivered, and said that he'd be over shortly with the new Teuda (which he was).
Assuming the situation is as the Mrs. Viflic described, the Viflics were put in a very difficult situation.
ReplyDeleteIf they would take down the teuda, many people would not eat there. If they would leave it up, most people would not notice that it was expired and would eat there. Now, is that considered tricking someone? Even if yes, I wouldn't be too quick to judge them. What would I do if I were in their shoes. But, I am not so sure that it is really deception. If indeed they were fully under the supervision of Yerushalyim mehadrin, so somebody who doesn't look at the expiry date on the certificate, will only be "fooled" into believing that which is TRUE.
I don't think having a mashgiach in the back that someone could ask helps unless they know the mashgiach. The only way a perceptive consumer could really verify the supervision is by calling yerushalayim mehadrin to confirm. Presumably, they don't have someone answering the phone during all of the restaurant's hours. That is pretty unreasonable that they weren't able to get a certificate to them on time.
Rafi, you have spoken to Spiro and Viflic, but you really ought to call Yerushalayim mehadrin to hear their side of the story. Firstly, to confirm that indeed the Oriental was under their supervision the whole time. Secondly, to confirm that the fee was paid. Those two things absolve the Viflics of any guilt in not having the updated teuda. Thirdly perhaps an explanation on their end is in order. Their inaction probably indirectly caused loss of business for the restaurant. I know that if I walked into a restaurant and the owner starts giving me explanations about why is teuda is expired, I wouldn't start making phone calls unless I had nothing else to eat. I would just leave.
So, regarding Spira I don't think he treated them fairly. And I think he should have contacted mehadrin yerushalayim to confirm the situation.
As for the Viflics, I don't THINK they did anything unethical, but perhaps strategically they could have done something better.
1st anonymous - and anyway, what is really the difference what month what happened? if by th time R' Spira "went to press" the whole thing was already resolved and the new teudah was issued, what difference does it make what happened 2 months ago, 1 month ago or even yesterday? all he should have said was "The Oriental has a new teudah of Rabbanut Yerushalayim Mehadrin" and thats it. They did have one and he knew about it.
ReplyDeleteAnd even if he wanted to mention it just to show as an example about expired teudahs that remain hanging, it should have been mentioned after explaining clearly that the situation has been resolved and that it is only a past tense example.
anon - I agree. If I had noticed the expired dates, I would have just walked out without asking for an explanation. I dont know that I would have looked so carefully in tis situation because "everybody knows" they are fine, but I have been in restaurants in the past that I was not 100% sure about and saw an expired teudah and just left. once I called the mashgiach and he assured me everythign was fine and that he was in the restaurant. I went in, sure enough he was there, I asked him if everythign was ok at mehadrin standards, he said yes but there was simply a delay in the issuing of the teudah and I ate there because of the mashgiach whose number I got from the expired teudah.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, maybe they could have instead hung a sign saying something like "Mashgiach on premises, call 05xxxxxx" to speak with him or ask at the desk to meet him".
There is still a benefit of hanging the sign, that you know the mashgiach is the same one as the one on the sign from the rabbanut mehadrin, rather than just a guy the owner might have hired but maybe he doesnt know anything about kashrus, just has a long enough beard to impress a potential customer.
While I'm sure Rabbi Spira means well and is trying to perform a service this incident does confirm a troubling pattern.
ReplyDeleteLast year Rabbi Spira wrote a scathing critique of the OU in Israel. My Rav, a senior Rabbinic official at the OU, came to Israel to investigate. What he found was that Rabbi Spira had not seen the bigger picture in each of the reported criticisms. Just a little extra investigation uncovered completely satisfactory explanations.
I think the Rabbi is bighting off more than he can chew. As a result he runs the very real risk, as we've seen, of besmirching perfectly fine establishments. The damage he can do by making snap judgement with insufficient information can be significant. I'm not sure that the good outweighs this potential down-side.
I personally take specific issues R. Spira talks about with a grain of salt, while appreciating some of the advice he offers in general.
another example I was going to write, bu the post had already gotten too long was his comments on Dr. Pepper.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all his problem with the "approved" list of London is bogus. he stated he doesnt believe in "approved". I have spoken to people form England and they all told me that is the system and you would be hard pressed to find anybody who doesnt trust it when it is on the "approved" list.
Second of all when he sent otu his email update a couple weeks ago with the info on Dr. pepper saying that all Dr. pepper is israel has a forged hecher and is a safek of being really not kosher, I sent him an email saying that it is not accurate and that there are some cans on the shelves with the label from Europe and the sticker that he was referring to, and some cans from the USA that have the OU and the OU is embossed on the can itself. As a matter of fact, by then, most cans I found in the store were OU and not European (though I didnt say it because it was not really relevant).
He sent me an email back saying you are right, if there is an OU embossed on the can it is fine.
I sent him an email suggesting he send that point to his whole email list as he had just sent out an email suggesting that Dr. Pepper in Israel might not be kosher at all and many people might look no further and might not differentiate.
He then sent out such an email stating that any product with an original OU is fine.
Since then I ahve been in the stores locally that sell Dr. pepper a few times and I have only seen the OU cans and not the European ones. So I am not sure why he says most cans are European and problematic and you might still be able to find a few cans remaining with the OU.
But again, he gave out good info but it was incomplete.
Incomplete info in kashrus can be very damaging. you might not like dr. pepper, but if you are the importer, or a store that stocks it and suddenly nobody is buying because of this type of info, it is hezek.
It bothers me that BTYA has now become the conscience of the people.
ReplyDeleteFirst they tell me that the tzedaka I give to isn't "kosher" (or at least not kosher enough to appeal in their shul).
Then their rav tells us that our mikve isn't "kosher" enough.
Now we hear that trusted local establishments aren't acceptable either.
Perhaps it's BTYA, it's members and its rav who aren't "kosher".
May be the businesses, services and professions owned by BT's members should be questioned and banned as well.
How would they feel if we infringed on their parnassos?
It's high time that this "open minded" kehilla come down from its ivory tower and join the rest of the klal living in RBSA.
I agree with Spiro. The restaurant should learn what the word fraud means. They were misleading the public with their outdated certificate. personally. if i lived in bet Shemesh and knew these people, I would have asked why their te'uda is outdated. When hearing that the mashgiach is present I would have sat down immediately. Actuually, if I knew them and they said everything is fine I would have sat down without the mashgiach.
ReplyDeleteI don't like lies though. So I don't know if I'll be eating there.
Regarding the O-U story last year: Spiro had some good questions and the O-U Rabbi didn't deliver the goods.
jewinj,
ReplyDeleteI don't think it is considered a lie.
According to them, they had certification for Jerusalem Mehadrin. It was paid for, approved, their mashgiach continued supervising to their standard. It was only the paper that was missing.
(Like the case in the gemara, אין שטרא זייפא הוא, where the original contract was lost, so the person forged another, and told the judge that it was forged.)
Again tactically, perhaps not the best strategy, but ethically, I don't see a problem with them. However, according to their story I do see a major problem with Jerusalem mehadrin administration (not kashrus) and a problem (despite the good intentions) with Mr. Spira.
If they would have displayed the certificate, yet not had certification and just on their own maintained standards, that could have been ethically problematic. But, that is not what they say happened, and so far no one has denied their take.
Mr. Spira,I don't understand why there is a R in front of his name is very knowledgable about Kashrut ,or so it seems.He is also trying to change the status of different methods of kashrut,which on one hand may be admirable but on the other hand it seems that he leaves out many items that are understood and tries to make his opinion the true opinion.
ReplyDeleteFact, as mentioned by the Viflics their teuda was paid for and they had not received it.I know of cases under the Rabbanut and of private Hashgachot that this has happened to.Correct it shouldn't happen ,but it does.Mr.Spira often writes that a product from abroad doesn't have a rabbanut hechsher therefore it is not kosher.Technically and according to the black & white law that saying may be true,however what should be said is that a product cannot be certified kosher unless it has an ishur from the Rabbanut.The difference according to Mr.Spira wording The first product is Treife ,the second product just hasn't yet been approved by the rabbanut . - BIG DIFFERENCE.
Shana Tova to one & all.
Regarding the O-U story last year: Spiro had some good questions and the O-U Rabbi didn't deliver the goods.
ReplyDeleteActually, he did. He widely publicized an item by item refutation of nearly everything Spiro alleged.
By the way
ReplyDeleteI just spoke to someone who CALLED the rabanut mehadrin and guess what !!!!!!!The restaurant had NO hechsher from them at the time they were hanging the teudah!!!!!!
Yes they did get one just in time for the As We Go To Print section of the booklet however fraud was definitely commited by them
Thank You Rabbi spira.
BTYA allows caterers without a teudat kashrut to work if they bring a Mashgiach to supervise ( not sure if this includes the cooking process). How is this different from what the Oriental did? They also allow people to use Netiv Lamed Hey-would Rav Spira approve of their hechshah?
ReplyDeleteTo Print section of the booklet however fraud was definitely commited by them
ReplyDeleteIt's absolutely incredible how someone could so completely miss the point of what's going on here! You'd better pray that God isn't as pedantic with you over the next 10+ days. Good luck with that.
In the meantime we're planning to eat at the Oriental tomorrow to show our support. I encourage others to do the same.
last anonymous - he spoke about Lamed Hey - it sounded like he overall approved of their catering, except for a couple of minor points that he wasnt happy with one of their dairy breads and also was not impressed with the sign about the broccoli kugel..
ReplyDeleteThere are two victims here.
ReplyDeleteThe Viflics, who have suddenly been put through a very public microscope, and trashed in the town square.
And Mr Spiro, who was hired and sent on a Private Investigator mission that was hard-wired to result in public furore and controversy.
These are the victims.
The perpetrator,unfortunately, is once again the Rav of BTYA, whose arrogant and contemptuous schemes know no bounds.
After attending R' Spira's seminar, I have started paying more attention to teudot, and I would have looked at the one in Oriental if I had gone. Because I know the Viflics and their restaurant, I would have asked them about it and probably taken their word for it and still eaten there. But that's just it - because I know them enough to trust them. If it had been some place I don't know, I don't think I would have accepted whatever excuse he had for his expired teudah.
ReplyDeleteThat's the whole point of having a teudah. So we know that all the checking has been done for us.
The Viflics have a point in asking, "Why didn't R' Spira ask us or speak to the mashgiach?" My answer would be, he shouldn't have to. What would a consumer do? For my part, I'd look for a teudah and if I didn't see one to my liking, I'd go elsewhere. I should not have to go speak to anyone.
BTW Raf, I think it's an important point whether the teudah was recently expired or several months expired. The "delays from their office" routine might be understood if it's a matter of days, but not months. The alibi loses credibility after a while.
Funny how the "delay from their office" excuse is so commonly heard. If it's true, I think the proprietors of these stores should mark their calenders a month beforehand and raise hell if it doesn't come in time. A kashrus organization knows their clients' business can turn on this teudah. It's unacceptable for them to be mazik their clients who pay good money for something as stupid as not sending it out in time.
I know the Viflics and I have eaten at the Oriental but something here doesn't add up. Their teuda expired on the 13th of Nisan and 3 months later they still did not have a new one. I find it very hard to believe that the Rabbanut did not provide the teuda for 3 months. In fact, according to Rafi's post the Viflics themselves said that it took 1 month to get the teuda from when they paid. That means that for 2 months for some reason they did not have the Rabbanut Yerushalayim Mehadrin hashgacha. I think that they should explain why/what happened that for 2 months they didn't have the hashgacha.
ReplyDeleteIf Oriental didn't have the Rabbanut Mehadrin Hasgacha, how could the masgiach who represents the Rabbanut be allowed to continue working there? So far it looks like the only fraud they were committing was misleading the public, to think their food was at the level of kashrut it actually was. If the Rabbanut had really felt that fraud was committed, wouldn't they have permanently pulled the hashgacha.
ReplyDeleteIn Toronto, until very recently, when it came to Kashrut, COR was the only game in town. Even now they are fighting to keep their monopoly.
When COR would sent out notices that a place was no longer under their supervision it would never say if it was due to a kashrut violation, change in hashgacha, monetary or the establishment going out of business. In more than a few cases pulling the hasgacha due to a kashrut violation would immediatly put the establishment out of business.
In one case they almost destroyed a restaurant, due to an alledged kashrut violation. Eventually they had to issue a public apology that was displayed at the restaurant and published in the Jewish newspapers. The kashrut violation was the cook, wanted to take advantage of his employers purchasing power and bought food that would not be allowed in that particular establishment. An investigation uncovered that none of the questionable food ever ended up in the kitchen.
Nobody is claiming that there were any changes in The Oriental kitchen. Perhaps they were lead to believe the teudah was valid, even if they could not display the valid version in their restaurant.
The Viflics have a point in asking, "Why didn't R' Spira ask us or speak to the mashgiach?" My answer would be, he shouldn't have to.
ReplyDeleteStrongly disagree. There's a difference between a consumer who makes a decision for himself, versus someone hired to poke around and give a public report - he should be more thorough, and more concerned for the details of what kind of "fraud" he publicly accuses them.
the Viflics assured me that the delay in renewing the teudah was really just a lapse, caused by a number of things including the Rabbanut not reminding them for over a month after it had already expired, the mashgiach not reminding them, and some other delays.
ReplyDeleteAfter the Rabbanut told them to renew, there were still some delays from both sides, it seems just technical things - payment, processing, etc. they got it taken care of (though it took a month to get even after all the delays) and the new teudah is dated back to cover them for the whole period of delays anyway since the original expiration..
yes, things could have been done differently, and perhaps should have been done so. I am convinced there was no fraud intended. They were not fighting with the Rabbanut, they continued to have the Rabbanut's mashgiach on premises on a constant basis.
as someone who doesnt eat the hashgacha rabanut mehadrin either i would like to comment. Anyone who is interested in the hashgacha where they are eating looks at the teuda when they come into a place every time. everyone could have seen it was expired and if they wanted to could have called to find out more info. I dont think thats fraud really. it said the date that it expired and anyone could have checked
ReplyDeleteAnon of 10:55,
ReplyDeleteJust out of curiosity...do you know why you don't eat the mehadrin Rabbanut hechsher?
I find it interesting how many people don't eat this or that but don't know why either.
Please enlighten me.
No answer from Rav Spira yet? Wow, only 2 dyas left to do Teshuva!
ReplyDelete..."just a lapse, caused by a number of things including the Rabbanut not reminding them for over a month after it had already
ReplyDeleteexpired, the mashgiach not reminding them, and some other
delays."
Oh come on, Raf. That's a sorry excuse. Are they in grade-school? Something as essential to their business as a teudah? I'd even cut them some slack if they said, "We goofed, we totally forgot about the renewal. We're sorry." But to pass the blame that someone didn't remind them???
Shira, strongly disagree with you. He was doing a report for consumers. He simply reported that their teudah was expired which means they were not under supervision. He did not say they were treif. He said they're presently not under supervision, which was true. Now you may decide you trust them enough without it, and that's fine - for you. But that's not the same as having a valid teudah.
wanna - I am relating their response (in my own words) when I wrote that..I agree its not a good excuse..but everything else still seems fine, and they had a mashgiach the whole time,, so it doesnt bother me
ReplyDeleteand to your comment to Shira - he was doing a report for consumers but he editorialized a lot. He stressed the lack of teudah, but barely mentioned that they had gotten a new one. He didnt even mention that they had a mashgiach on premises at all times, or even at all, regardless of the teudah (though he did discuss it by other restaurants).
Had a great dinner there tonight. Some great new menu items like Moo Shu Shrimp, Lobster Cantonese Style, and Roast Pork...
ReplyDeleteThese poor folks are just trying to run a decent business which provides a service to the community.
I'd love to set all you little fusspots up in a struggling business and have some Yahoo come out of nowhere with his two-bit, half-baked accusation and see how you feel.
Again I say you'd better pray to God that he doesn't treat you tnghe way you're treating these folks.
And to the rest of you decent folks. Get your tushies over there!
B'tei Avon!
Menachem's point of the proximity to RH is important.
ReplyDeleteI have yet to hear or see a public apology from any of those invloved, in partiuclar from the kehilla that commissioned the Kashrus Inquisition.
If any harm comes, Chas V'shalom because of these careless remarks it is on the shoulders of certain people at BTYA just as any lack of funding to Lema'an Achai due to the Inquisitor's cherem on them from the BTYA pulpit.
Except that in that case it is the cry of the poor and the zechus of their gabbayim that will reach the Kisay HaKavod this Rosh HaShana.
wow some guy is up at 4:30 am just to post on this blog
ReplyDeleteKOL HAKAVOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe that there is hope for our community.
ReplyDeleteA new breed of rabbonim has graced our fair city including Rabbi Karmi Gross, Rabbi Yaacov Haber, Rabbi Chaim Soloveichik and others who lead their kehillot with love and guidance rather than fear and egos.
Let us hope that the misguided and lost souls of RBSA find the true derech HaTorah rather than the mafia version of our present leadership.