Aug 4, 2014
Is the IDF too Jewish or not Jewish enough?
Normally the main complaint against the army, by the Haredi community, is that the IDF is not Jewish enough. The IDF is not a place for a good Jewish boy. It is too difficult to keep ones Jewish values and ideals, and level of observance, while in the IDF.
It seems a "more jewish" army isn't what is really wanted (at least by some).
The Peles newspaper wrote an angry editorial about the new rapprochement between the Haredi community and the IDF. It notes the emotional prayers in the yeshivot, the tremendous chessed by members of chessed organizations donating food and equipment to soldiers in the south, and especially noteworthy of Givati Commander Ofer Vinter - who gave an interview to haredi newspaper Mishpacha.
They especially don't like Vinter, whom they accuse of using his kippa and taking advantage of the atmosphere of war to grant an interview in the Haredi media and influence Haredi youth to enlist.
They attack the assistance given in tying green tzitzis to be sent to the front.
According to them it is all part of a plan to re-educate the haredi community.
read more details about it in Kikar.
Not Jewish enough, or too Jewish. Either way it seems to be no good.
It seems a "more jewish" army isn't what is really wanted (at least by some).
The Peles newspaper wrote an angry editorial about the new rapprochement between the Haredi community and the IDF. It notes the emotional prayers in the yeshivot, the tremendous chessed by members of chessed organizations donating food and equipment to soldiers in the south, and especially noteworthy of Givati Commander Ofer Vinter - who gave an interview to haredi newspaper Mishpacha.
They especially don't like Vinter, whom they accuse of using his kippa and taking advantage of the atmosphere of war to grant an interview in the Haredi media and influence Haredi youth to enlist.
They attack the assistance given in tying green tzitzis to be sent to the front.
According to them it is all part of a plan to re-educate the haredi community.
read more details about it in Kikar.
Not Jewish enough, or too Jewish. Either way it seems to be no good.
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Makes sense to me.
ReplyDeleteThe more that their followers see the shared humanity of those not exactly like themselves, the worse it is for leaders who wish to portray everyone outside their narrow circle as devils.
Many of the soldiers maybe Jewish, but the IDF? No in the least. It does not fight wars Jewishly, ie. al pi Torah.
ReplyDeleteB"H - I hold a view on this which I was told is not shared before and that is that people are required to swear an oath by the IDF before they are allowed to be soldiers. They swear allegiance to the secular State's command-chain, one that goes against to what makes us Jews, to the oath of allegiance to Hashem we made under the Mount in Sinai for all generations: "We will do and we will understand". This has far reaching consequences, halachic, civil, political and cultural. In essence, what we are talking about here, is that soldiers are required to renounce their Judaism and worship a new divinity, the Zionist State. Most soldiers don't even realize what is done to them and claim that their "intentions" matter. Well, in Judaism words count and oaths count even more!
ReplyDeletemaybe you should inform the rabbinate, the newspapers, the everyone about this amazing discovery!!!
Deletehad you served, this wouldn't be such a "WOW, OMG"
Ariel, that is why religious soldiers replace "I swear" with "I declare"
ReplyDeleteCorrect. At my induction ceremony in the 90s, our secular commanders told us we had the choice what to say but we were told to not shout it out like the seculars shouting 'I swear' (I was only one of three religious guys in my unit so it wasn't really a big issue) . Well, in a parallel until of hesder guys, they didn't listen :-)
DeleteJosh, I checked this out with the Rambam and he says words other than "I swear" are still count as oaths. Don't ask me the exact location of the source, I don't remember, but it's in Mishneh Torah, under Oaths. I think it is baloney, the difference between "I swear", "I declare" or "I confirm" is precisely ZERO in this context and the Zionists allowing a choice of verbs to mean the same thing is purely tactical on their part, to allow those who already want to accept, to swear in.
DeleteFrankly, we seem to be guilty of short-term Israeli memory. Up until Lapd-Bennet came into power, the Haredim were already becoming closer to the army. The Lapid-Bennet coalition (the Bayit Yehudi supported except for Yoni Shetbun) ruined years of slow and natural convergence.
ReplyDeleteIt is inevitable IMO, that the IDF will continue to become more Jewish in a moral sense as dati-leumi officers, such as Vinter, continue to rise through the ranks over the next ten years. I do support the Haredim in their current 'protest' against Lapid-Bennet to not get drafted, but the time will soon come when a large wave of Haredim will enlist (perhaps indirectly from the current Protective Edge). This is inevitable on a spiritual sense.
This might be so, but frankly it seems to me OT, out of topic as what I'm talking here about is the incompatibility between the two oaths of allegiance: The one we make as Jews to Hashem, under the Mount in Sinai for all generations and the one the IDF requires from its soldiers to the secular command-chain.
DeleteThe point I'm making is that the the day is coming soon when the chain of command will include many more religious. Feiglin really was the pioneer with his Manhigut Yehudit organization encouraging Jewish leadership, and while he himself might not succeed, he has paved the way for more to come - politically and in the military as well.
Delete@Ariel
DeleteBefore spouting off some more, how about some sources for the idea that agreeing to adhere to a chain of command is in some way incompatible with Halachah? You know there's a whole Parasha dedicated to oaths. Funny, it doesn't mention anything about this. There's also the fact that there is no record of an oath taken at Har Sinai.
I get it: You have an irrational hate towards Zionists. But spouting off ridiculous ideas about oaths doesn't really make a case. And hate on Tish'ah B'av? What would CHaZaL say?